So insightful, and more than a little scary. It makes so much more sense now I see it as a business case like many other projects I’ve worked on. And instead of taking the charm out of writing, for me it adds new purpose to it. Thank you.
I’m so grateful for this Substack! Many of the posts targeting authors and writers are incomplete and/or vague about processes. Or they try to motivate, which many of us don’t require or want. This solid explanation is immensely helpful. Can’t wait to read the rest!
As a middle grade author on submission right now, I appreciate this insight. The market is so frustrating at times, so this is a great reminder that editors actually do fight for books, do love stories, and do want them to find a home. Sometimes, I forget it's a business because all I want is to walk past a young reader immersed in my book. Thanks for sharing this with us!
I've been wanting an insight into the mechanics of these meetings for ages, so thank you so much for this!
Can I ask re prior sales figures - do the team take into account the size of those prior publishers. E.g. if you've previously published with smaller presses, you're likely to have low sales figures by default. Is that a blanket negative or is it accounted for at all?
It is accounted for yes! So we can see what the average selling price of your previous book has been - if it’s low that means it was probably in a supermarket or big discount retailer like The Works (and usually then it’s a bigger publisher). If it’s high then most of sales will have been through indies or Waterstones or online. So we take all that into account - if you’ve never been in a supermarket then you have no track record in a supermarket, if that makes sense. As an editor I’d explain that you’d been with a smaller press so sales are partly due to that. So yes is the short answer :) Glad you found it interesting!
Fantastic stuff. One question: is the art department ever at these meetings? Given how important covers are, I’d have thought the potential or otherwise for a great cover would be a key determinant
Our marketing director is also the art director so yes! It’s so important to have those 2 depts connected. I’m doing my next post about the covers meeting too :)
To be honest I find it just out of order that total strangers are sitting around having conversations about their own "vision" for books that are already written, work that authors have laboured over for months or more likely years. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate editors. A good editor is worth their weight in gold. But there is a difference between someone working with you on the text to make it tighter and sharper and flow in a way that it seamless, and someone who thinks they can reimagine the actual story and upend your book in line with their imaginings. I mean, come on! It'd be entertainment all round if I ran into an editor with the phucking nerve to say that to me! LOL!
The vision is more just how it would fit into the wider market - that’s what it means in this context. It’s important for us to think about the sales and marketing aspect (which isn’t the author’s job!) It’s not the text itself - it’s the cover, title, retailers etc, - that sort of thing :)
I was talking about the major structural story changes you mentioned. Changing the ending for example. I've never run into a request like that from a publisher and I hope I never do! I think editors would do well to remember that by the time a book lands on their desks it's been years in the making, been through three or four revisions at least, some or all with an agent, and that the vision for these books has already been set by the people who write them. No offence to you personally Phoebe, don't shoot the messenger and all that, but I wish the publishers who think they can just rearrange our work would say so on their websites so I could tell my agent to avoid them.
So insightful, and more than a little scary. It makes so much more sense now I see it as a business case like many other projects I’ve worked on. And instead of taking the charm out of writing, for me it adds new purpose to it. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this valuable information Phoebe. Very generous.
I’m so grateful for this Substack! Many of the posts targeting authors and writers are incomplete and/or vague about processes. Or they try to motivate, which many of us don’t require or want. This solid explanation is immensely helpful. Can’t wait to read the rest!
I’m very glad it’s helpful!
This is so so helpful Phoebe thank you xx
Such a generous thing to write and share! So helpful!
Thank you for saying so and for reading!
You’ve really brought the meeting to life - I can just picture all the opinions flying round that table and all the editors rooting for their books!
We do our best!
Fascinating read. Thank you, Phoebe.
Thanks so much for reading, Michelle.
As a middle grade author on submission right now, I appreciate this insight. The market is so frustrating at times, so this is a great reminder that editors actually do fight for books, do love stories, and do want them to find a home. Sometimes, I forget it's a business because all I want is to walk past a young reader immersed in my book. Thanks for sharing this with us!
Thank you for such a lovely comment.
Really glad I’ve come across this as I’m submission myself, very reassuring!
Good luck on your submission!
Thank you!
I've been wanting an insight into the mechanics of these meetings for ages, so thank you so much for this!
Can I ask re prior sales figures - do the team take into account the size of those prior publishers. E.g. if you've previously published with smaller presses, you're likely to have low sales figures by default. Is that a blanket negative or is it accounted for at all?
It is accounted for yes! So we can see what the average selling price of your previous book has been - if it’s low that means it was probably in a supermarket or big discount retailer like The Works (and usually then it’s a bigger publisher). If it’s high then most of sales will have been through indies or Waterstones or online. So we take all that into account - if you’ve never been in a supermarket then you have no track record in a supermarket, if that makes sense. As an editor I’d explain that you’d been with a smaller press so sales are partly due to that. So yes is the short answer :) Glad you found it interesting!
Oh that's very reassuring to hear, thank you! I love my small press books but I was a bit feart about how they'd be perceived, given the raw numbers
Small presses are great!
They really are!
Super useful, thanks Phoebe! Looking forward to reading all of your other posts! Xx
Thank you!
Thank you for sharing! This is really useful 😁
You’re welcome - thanks for reading!
Fantastic stuff. One question: is the art department ever at these meetings? Given how important covers are, I’d have thought the potential or otherwise for a great cover would be a key determinant
Our marketing director is also the art director so yes! It’s so important to have those 2 depts connected. I’m doing my next post about the covers meeting too :)
Ahh interesting. Really looking forward to that one :)
To be honest I find it just out of order that total strangers are sitting around having conversations about their own "vision" for books that are already written, work that authors have laboured over for months or more likely years. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate editors. A good editor is worth their weight in gold. But there is a difference between someone working with you on the text to make it tighter and sharper and flow in a way that it seamless, and someone who thinks they can reimagine the actual story and upend your book in line with their imaginings. I mean, come on! It'd be entertainment all round if I ran into an editor with the phucking nerve to say that to me! LOL!
The vision is more just how it would fit into the wider market - that’s what it means in this context. It’s important for us to think about the sales and marketing aspect (which isn’t the author’s job!) It’s not the text itself - it’s the cover, title, retailers etc, - that sort of thing :)
I was talking about the major structural story changes you mentioned. Changing the ending for example. I've never run into a request like that from a publisher and I hope I never do! I think editors would do well to remember that by the time a book lands on their desks it's been years in the making, been through three or four revisions at least, some or all with an agent, and that the vision for these books has already been set by the people who write them. No offence to you personally Phoebe, don't shoot the messenger and all that, but I wish the publishers who think they can just rearrange our work would say so on their websites so I could tell my agent to avoid them.
This is so interesting Phoebe, thank you. I had no idea about the ‘vision document’!
It’s the key!
Love this - so interesting! Also a Lucy Score fan ;-)
Yay!