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jacqui ripley's avatar

I think these tips are good for life in general too. Thanks for sharing

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Thanks for reading!

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Dr Emma Hepburn's avatar

This is so helpful. I have moved from a place where I used to dread getting edits and now I love them! (It has taken four books to get there though- I think my editor is now more nervous about them than me !) I think a trust relationship is key and honesty and openness. I now see a book as a construction between multiple people rather than just my work and that really helped how I think

About edits.

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

So glad it is helpful, Emma. Agree trust is so important. Sounds like you have a good set up now!

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Helen Barrell's avatar

Positive comments are so important in an edit. I used to have an editor whose comments were just things that needed to be changed. But since moving publisher, it's just SO GOOD to see comments like "Wonderful!" In the margins along with "Could you rewrite this sentence? I'm not sure I understand."

It reminds me of the "mustard sandwich technique" which I learned on a management course in my day job. Put something bad between things that are nice and it's far easier for people to swallow. "I really love the work you've done on this. Could you alter that section, as I think there might be some typos. But overall, it's great!" If someone gets a ream of criticism, they won't believe they're any good. And you might even unleash their hurt inner child, and no one needs that!

I expect you've received some enormously butthurt emails in response to edits - and it must be really hard to be on the receiving end of them! But... As a writer yourself, at least you have some insight into why some people might react like that. I try hard not to, but I'm haunted by the email I sent when all my semi-colons went into the bin! Ouch! 🫣

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Ah it's nice to know the positive comments make a difference! And yes, we definitely do employ the sandwich technique... Thank you for reading!

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Diane Jeffrey's avatar

I have cried on occasion when I’ve received structural edits, but when I get edits, I let it all sink in and start with what I can do while the tricky bits work away at the back of my mind. I like to talk the harder parts through with my editor and once I can see how to do what she wants, I really enjoy editing because I can see my book shaping into something I’m satisfied with and proud of.

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

I have definitely cried too! Thanks for sharing your experience Diane, and for reading!

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Richard Donnelly's avatar

The trouble with edits is you're not going to agree with any of them.

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Haha!

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Jake McCormac's avatar

I would love to have this panicked feeling for a novel. I've had minimal edits for shorts (one being, "Now change it to American"), but to be honest I was elated. You want to make this better so it can be included in the anthology? Where do I sign...again...(I'd already signed a contract). I hope I maintain this mindset throughout my writing journey. Note, I didn't say career, it might never come to that. But that's ok.

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

That's a lovely comment - you are right, receiving edits is a privilege really!

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Antony Johnston's avatar

Similar to David downthread; the moment I submit a manuscript I immediately realise all the things about it that could be improved (despite having already spent weeks doing my own edit and polish) so by the time edits arrive I'm already prepared to make a bunch of my own changes anyway.

That said, I absolutely subscribe to the "take some time to cool off" philosophy. I never, ever allow myself to respond to edits or notes less than 24hrs after receiving them, because my thought process normally goes, "OMG how dare they – OK, well I suppose maybe I could look at that bit again – actually, they were right all along" 😅

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

I definitely think a cooling off period is helpful! Thank you for reading and engaging.

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Jake McCormac's avatar

I once got a huge reaction on Twitter for the following. "Submitting a piece of fiction is like thinking your house is clean until you invite someone over".

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Love this analogy! So true.

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Kathleen McGurl's avatar

In my experience, editors often send edits out on a Friday evening. I read them, cry a little, swear a lot, put them away and open some wine.

The following day I reread them and realise the editor is right, of course, and I am hungover.

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Haha! Very true…

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Abie Longstaff's avatar

If the advice comes from someone I trust (agent, editor, good writing buddy) I ALWAYS do a very, very scrappy version of their suggested change because

1. That way I can assess it fairly & I know my reaction isn't just about fear of change/doing more work and

2. It allows me to say 'I tried that change and it's great' or 'it didn't work because...'

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Yes, it's fine to try it and it not work! Good point. Thank you for reading, Abie!

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Marti Eads's avatar

The author of one of my favorite recent novels, WHEN THE ENGLISH FALL, says his editor wrote, "We love your book! We just want three changes: the beginning, the middle, and the end." His day job is ministry, and he says he wandered around his house muttering rather unpastoral things for a while. Now, though, he insists that the book is much better because he made the recommended changes.

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Ha! Thanks for reading.

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Katie Holloway's avatar

Have you got any horror stories you can share about authors that have responded badly to edits? 🍿🍿

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

Haha! Hmm to be honest most people are brilliant at it and totally lovely… I did once have somebody refuse to do them and then message me on Christmas Day to tell me that actually I was right!!!

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Katie Holloway's avatar

Ha! What a great Christmas present!

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David (D. V.) Bishop's avatar

I make a list of things my writing brain tells me need improving while waiting for the editorial notes, that usually takes the sting out of the structural letter when it arrives. Sometimes doing that can help identify aspects of the ms your editor doesn't spot as a problem or point to the things you set aside and thus don't appear in the ms but should!

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

That's a good tactic! Thank you.

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susie bower's avatar

I have just the same reaction to receiving edits - a panicky, overwhelmed 'I can't do this!'. But now I recognise this as my anxious brain firing off fearful arrows. Your advice to let things percolate is great. Sometimes, for me, it helps to gently lower myself into the edits and begin by making the small changes I can rather than addressing the big structural things. It might seem 'wrong' to do this because of course big structural changes may affect the smaller edits, but psychologically I find it good because I get in touch with my own agency and feel I'm able to do something. And once that happens, the bigger stuff becomes more do-able. When it does come to the big stuff, I find it really helps to focus on one thing and make all the changes relating to that before moving to another. Again, 'one thing' feels far more doable and less overwhelming.

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Phoebe Morgan's avatar

I like the fearful arrows idea!

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David (D. V.) Bishop's avatar

Now have 'shoot that fearful arrow' running round in my head...

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